Interview with Charmaine Headley and Julia Morris on African Women and Family, CIUT 89.5FM, February 20, 2010
Audio length: 26:41

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Mesfin Aman (MA): Welcome once again to African Women and Family, my name is Mesfin Aman And you're tuned in to the Saturday, February 20th edition on CIUT 89.5 FM, and we're very happy today to be joined by a couple of guests from COBA, which stands for the Collective of Black Artists, and we will be speaking to them about an exhibition or premiere that they will be featuring for Black History month. Between February 26th and 28th. We would like to begin by welcoming into the studio Julia Morris. Welcome.

Julia Morris (JM): Hello.

MA: And Charmaine Headley. How are you?

Charmaine Headley (CH): I am fine thank you. What about yourself?

MA: Excellent. Thank you first and foremost for coming on down and we wanted to get into the actual premiere that you will be featuring but before that we wanted to get to know you a little bit better and to have the folks out there listening to know who you are, what you stand for and what you're about. So I would like to begin by a very simple question, when did each one of you begin dancing and why? So let's start with you Julia.

JM: I started dancing when I was 8 years old in Jamaica and then I came here 12 years ago and I kept dancing.

MA: You haven't stopped since?

JM: Nope.

MA: And how about you Charmaine?

CH: Well, I was not fortunate to start at that tender age but nevertheless, I started in Barbados at the age of 20, which is a much older beginning for a person in dance but I came with knowledge in my head as opposed to working on or developing natural talent per se, so it's a different approach and I've been dancing since then. So I started at the Barbados Dance theatre, the School of Barbados Dance theatre and I went on to perform with the company for 4 or 5 years before I came to Toronto to continue my studies at the School of Toronto Dance theatre.

MA: Now, there are those who espouse for young children nowadays, for example, that it's the math and the sciences and the reading, you know dance it's nice but maybe it's artsy and it's not going to help you in the real world, so to speak. How would you respond to that line of thinking?

CH: It's a very common line of thought, sadly to say, but what I would say and hope to impress on the mothers and fathers out there so then they can be willing to allow their children, both boys and girls, to be involved in dance is that dance allows their children to develop creatively, like any other art form, but everything that you learn in dance will have an impact on your other aspects of life because we talk about history, we learn social skills, they learn math, in terms of counting whether you're doing a quarter turn or a half turn, so there are things that can be parallel and they are parallel to life through the arts so it's essential.

MA: Plus, I've been down to COBA and you guys run a pretty tight ship so it's quite regimented and they learn discipline and a routine and all those things right? And I suppose, Julia, that those are the lessons that would help you out away from dance as well, right?

JM: Yes, definitely.

MA: Excellent. Now when did you join COBA, Julia?

JM: I started 12 years ago so that would be '98. Yeah, that's when I started.

MA: Charmaine, tell us a little bit more about COBA, other than the acronym.

CH: COBA was formed in 1993, so 17 years ago, and initially it was formed by Junia Mason, BaKari E. Lindsay, Mosa Neshama and myself, more so for a platform for us to dance, just the four of us, because we were recent graduates - 3 of us, Mosa, BaKari, and myself - recent graduates of the School of Toronto Dance, and we met Junia at Usefari Dance Ensemble, which is now defunct and it was run by Vivian Scarlett at that time, and we were looking for a place to perform and at that time, simultaneously was the beginning of Black History celebrations and so we did a lot of school performances and a great deal of them in February. But what it turned out to be was the bigger picture - as we know in life there's always a bigger picture - and so that little seed where it was a performance opportunity for us four, and we became activists and we became teachers, and we became educators around dance of the African diaspora, and traditional West African dance, and ensuring that it is seen and recognized and on parallel with the the other Eurocentric ballet and modern dance.

MA: So, when you look at the larger landscape, dance for example, do you think we have made headway in terms of the artistic community and in terms of accepting this form of dance, or cultural expression? Is more accepted today compared to when you started out in 1993?

CH: I will honestly say that yes we are accepted within the mainstream dance form, we are recognized and you can go to other performances where there are different cultural dance idioms that can be seen, right? Yes, within Toronto. But there is a still another bigger picture so that we do not become complacent and sit on our laurels and say well, yes, you can find traditional West African Dance, yes you can find Caribbean idioms out there in Toronto, now the next push is to make sure that these forms are in the universities, in the education systems, and in the schools, and in the same way the children and young adults - especially those who are studying dance in university - and they go and they learn the "history, dance history" which, at this point is very Eurocentric - this is where our history needs to be written and needs to be implanted in the curriculum. That's the next step.

MA: So let me play devil's advocate for a second. So do you think we then as African Canadians, as people from Africa and the Caribbean and the world over, do we take this culture for granted because when we go to different events, for example, we see people who have not been exposed to this culture all their life really attracted to it, really recognizing the strength and the value of this cultural expression, do we need to maybe take a step back and look inward and say "listen, this is not all, we shouldn't take this for granted," for example?

CH: I just want to give Julia a chance to respond that, but I think it's inherent as a people to take to take things that you are accustomed to for granted, in a sense. What I would plead is that we do not take these for granted and that we recognize that it's important and that it's important for our children. So all the kids that come through COBA studios, whoever - it matters not whether its African diasporic, Indian diasporic, South Asian - whatever culture it is, but staying at home within the African Diaspora, I think we need to start telling our stories, and start writing and chronicling our stories and our history as opposed to someone doing it for us, and making sure that it's done in a way that it is in our voice and making sure that information, then, is there and whether we have to push and be more activist so that it is accepted especially within the universities and within the education system so it is included within the curriculum because it makes no sense that we have made these in-roads but we're still not integrated within the education system because that's how everything else will grow and move out and filter into the world.

MA: Now Julia, we mentioned earlier that you were born in Jamaica, and raised for some time there, Rex Nettleford - what does that name conjure up for you because we understand that, of course, he has passed on recently, did he influence you and some of your works perhaps?

JM: Definitely. I started dancing at the Jamaica School of Dance, and he was responsible for starting that program there, and I also got a scholarship which was encouraged by his dance company which is the National Dance Company, and I've been taking classes, he's always been around for most of the years that I've been training, he was always coming into and encourage us as young dancers to continue. So he played a major role in my development a dancer.

MA: So you clearly know another side to this man. What do you guys think his legacy will be in the years to come and what do you hope it will be?

JM: Well it has a major impact because he was responsible for a lot of gates opening, he started so many different programs and I am sure he won't be forgotten for years and years to come because of what he represents for dance in Jamaica.

CH: And just to add to that, because Jamaica, I guess, was blessed to have Dr. Nettleford as a son of the soil but his impact trickled through the Caribbean. He helped in bringing the dance of the Caribbean and of the African Diaspora up and recognized because he was one of the few Caribbean academics in dance that had published and that have remained at home, you know? Because most people, all those who publish but they have moved on to other parts of the world, right? But he remained and continued to create home.

MA: And Jamaica was also blessed because COBA was down there about a year ago, right?

(Charmaine and Julia laugh)

CH: Yes, yes.

MA: Excellent. Now that's an example of someone that has stayed home. We want to talk about another important woman who was forced to exile and her name was Miriam Makeba, and I am only bringing her up because it's one of the themes around one of your premieres, so how about Miriam Makeba - What does she mean to you and what does she mean to art? That's kind of a broad question.

CH: Yes, it is and I wouldn't pretend to be an expert to answer that. What I will say is that just as Dr. Nettleford stayed home, some of us have been displaced because of need, some of us were forced to be displaced, but regardless of your position within the world I think it is what your role is, your life's role and your life's position, knowing literally why you are here at this time and I think with Miriam Makeba - Yes, to some if they didn't follow her struggles from South Africa and if they were, it's almost impossible to be blind to what took place in terms of Apartheid but there are some who may say that they never realized that. But within her music even though she was in exile she still continued to push for the plight of her people and that was important. Yes she has artistically that beautiful and haunting voice and she can be entertaining on the surface but the bigger picture that she still continued to push for the plight and the freedom of her people and she had the platform to make sure that people heard it through her music.

MA: And, clearly, I think that she was more than just an artist.

CH: That's right.

MA: I mean we're on public airways now and I should use this opportunity to commend COBA for positions you've taken in the past, I remember, around statements Mayor Mel Lastman had made a little while ago, COBA took a very principle position so they are in fact to be commended for that.

CH: Thank you.

MA: I just want to maybe fast forward a little bit, we're going to get into the premiere shortly, but one of the other topics you focus on is Haiti, I'm curious, was this conceived prior to the recent events and if so, did you have to change the program to face his current reality?

CH: If you read the press release and in Jean-Guy Santus, who is the Haitian choreographer we have worked with him on two other occasions, and so he was here in November creating this so the answer is yes, this was prior to the earthquake. But ironically enough, I will just read a little bit of his artistic statement and it's almost as if he was being prophetic in a way. The title of the piece is 'Moments, so he has "Moments of hope, moments of despair, moments of confusion, everything in our lives is related to a certain time, a certain space, place and when everything seems to go wrong the only way to get through it is through our beliefs, all within. Beliefs linked to our roots, a calling, a crying, then come the moments; moments of faith, moments <i>Marasa</i>." After the earthquake, when I reread this it was almost as if Jean-Guy knew something was coming, there was some plight that was just hovering over Haiti and so he created this piece. So, no we did not have to change anything, the only thing which is unfortunate is that we have not been able to bring Jean-Guy Back for the opening on this upcoming weekend because commercial flights are only starting next week, which is our production week. We were hoping that he could come but unfortunately, he will not be here for the premier of his work.

MA: Nevertheless, let's go into that work. You will be featuring three world premieres and the remount of Maa Keeba, attributed to late South African singer. This all takes place on February 26th and 28th, and where is it taking place?

JM: At the Fleck Dance theatre, which is located at 207 Queens Quay West.

MA: Unlike Queens Qway.

(Julia laughs)

MA: There's a performance of Friday and Saturday at 8 p.m. and Sunday at 3 p.m., and the tickets range from $25 to $32 and we're talking about 3 world premieres, and we're talking about a tribute to the renowned South African singer Miriam Makeba, we're talking about a program entitled "Moments" about Haiti, and the third is entitled Hightal. What can you tell us about that, Julia Morris? I understand that his could very well be your brainchild.

JM: Yes, it is based on the Naya Bingi - you have the Naya Bingi rhythm, the Naya Bingi chant, which is from the Rastafarian culture. I had an opportunity to visit a couple of Naya Bingi sessions when I was in Jamaica and it stayed with me up until this day and I always wanted to create something that would represent the atmosphere of the session that they would put on and this choreography is basically trying to portray that on stage. The rhythms and the chants are natural, traditional rhythms the movement is my idea of what I feel whenever I hear the chants and the rhythms, yes.

MA: Excellent. We will restate that event over the coming weeks and later on today. In addition, what do you want to implore to people listening out there about COBA and how they can get involved and who should get involved and how they can support, Charmaine?

CH: I would ask that everyone gets involved, but I will start with - and this is not to separate or segregate the community - but I think it is important for our children to get involved and for our parents, sisters, brother, cousins, etc, to get involved. It's important as African, diasporic Africans, to support each other and also when their institutions, just like other cultures, they come, they have moved to another place, and they have created a niche and created a community, it's like an onion - different layers, right - but we should start with our own, and then we have a strong core. Learn about the history, it's amazing when I speak to first-generation Canadians and also their children too, there is not much history that has passed on, and it's important to know, and I know it sounds cliche, where we are from, know our history. And also because that you don't, number one, want to repeat some things that were wrong historically so you should know this, so you have a sense of what you can do, what you think needs to be changed, modified, so when your input is there, it's all progressive. Stepping out of our community I would implore other communities to come and get involved, because that's the only way you can learn about other cultures. It makes no sense that we, as people of African descent, sitting together and teaching each other, and not getting our stories outside of our community. Because, regardless of that, we take away the colour of the skin, we are all people, and so we should be able to communicate, we should be able to disagree without becoming violent, you know, conversations - That's what we need, conversations, cross-culturally.

MA: Well, that's very well-put. Julia - Any last words?

JM: I would like to encourage everyone to come out and see our show, which is from the 26th of February until the 28th.

MA: Now one last question - Are all three themes within one show, or are they run on successive nights?

CH: No, so the title of the show is 'Diasporic Dimensions,' and under that title there are four pieces, we missed our Mande Variations, which is choreographed by BaKari E. Lindsay, the other co-founder, and so on each night these four pieces will be performed.

MA: Excellent. So there you have it, you have Diasporic Dimensions, you have a tribute to the late legendary South African singer Miriam Makeba, you have Mande Variations from COBA co-artistic director BaKari E. Lindsay, you have Moments, which is by the Hatian visionary choreographer Jean-Guy Santus, you have Hightal, featuring our in-studio guest Julia Morris, and you also have Maa Keeba, from BaKari E. Lindsay. It all takes place in association with Harbourfront Centre's Next Steps, at the Fleck Dance Theatre, at 207 Queen's Quay West, and it takes place between February 26th and the 28th, a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday program. For more information you can call the Harbourfront box office at 416-973-4000, or visit COBA online at cobainc - c-o-b-a-i-n-c dot com. We want to thank you both for coming in, we want to thank you not just for today, but we want to thank you for keeping the tradition alive. I see it fit that we exit with the music of one of COBA's own, Mr. Roger Gibbs, and we'll be back shortly.

You've been listening to African Women and Family on CIUT, 89.5 FM.